The Starman Episode
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Yeti Stereo Microphone & Opal C1: [00:00:00] Welcome to the multi-verse comics podcast. On today's episode, you have Steven and Scott and you don't have me. This is Jason. Today, Steven Scott have a great conversation about star man. Listen in and enjoy.
Well, hello, kids and kittens and whatnot. Um, this is our, our, our attempt at the podcast tonight. Jason is once again on assignment in Budapest or wherever. No, he's actually helping a kid move somewhere. I think that's, yeah, I think he would much rather be here, but, uh, but there you go.
But this gives us a super opportunity to write a multiverse podcast wrong. Um, What, has it been a year? It, it, it has been a year. I, um, When we started this podcasting thing, I had certain ideas in my head about, um, going down some nostalgic old school comic book publishing topics from those of you that might [00:01:00] remember First Comics to Epic Comics and other things.
And, um, a personal Favorite of mine, and I know Steven enjoys it as well, is, uh, James, James Robinson's Starman from the early 2000s. We recorded it. I was very proud of it. And as new audio guys, we, uh, flushed that one down the toilet. Um, Yeah, it was not good. It, uh, it, uh, was the, the, whatever went wrong was severe enough to really spoil the, anyone's enjoyment of, uh, least of all our own.
Um, so, but, but the problem is, and this, this is, this is completely on me. It's, it's not on, on, on good. Mr. Scott at all is that having done the show or having done that episode. Um, I needed to put [00:02:00] some time and distance before we attempted to redo it because I'm just, that's just me. So And I know you kids enjoy our well orchestrated, so what are you reading this week?
You know, our best side gags of holding up the preview magazine going, isn't this a great cover on a podcast? Yes, so Yeah, it's, you know, it's funny you should say that because while we're sitting here and talking I'm glancing over at the table and I see that we've got in the fourth world Omniverse by Jack Kirby and it's got a a close up face of big barter on the spine and I'm like now That's going to look great on anyone's shelf.
Because it's Kirby and it's Big Barter and she's got that steely eyed look and, and there you go. So anyway. But yes, so we are here today. We are gathered here today. Uh, to chat about all things, uh, Starman. Um, I believe just lay out a little bit of the history. Um, [00:03:00] Starman as a name. Um, Uh, goes all the way back to the golden age of comics.
Okay? Yes, he was created in 19, in the 1940s. 1940s. I had all this written down too, kids. And it's just been that kind of day at the shop that that's all at the house. So we're gonna, we're gonna wing it a little bit. Um, well it gives you guys an opportunity that if you want to learn more. Go on the internet, um, where everything is true, uh, and factual.
Um, but yeah, so this, uh, this, this name, Starman, it's a, it's a golden age character. It has been, as a, as a, uh, as a character name, it's been retooled a few times. I would say my first exposure to anything Starman would have been the Will Payton series. The character Will Payton, uh, in the late 80s. Didn't buy it, didn't read [00:04:00] it, but I remember seeing the house ads in whatever DC books I was reading.
Um, and then Spilling out of Zero hour. Zero hour. Um, they, DC launched, uh, a new version of Starman. And I think this, I think we're looking at like, 95? I think Somewhere around there, 95? 94, 95? 94, Jeff. 94. So As, as Steven was saying, Starman for, um, long time DC fans was Ted Knight. He was a member of the Justice Society, Earth 2 at the time.
Right. Then, you know, we merged them all into one big happy universe. And, uh, yeah, some crisis, something, something, something like that, something crisis, some, some guy named Perez and Wolfman had something to do with it. Um, [00:05:00] and as DC does with the Justice Society, they have a hard time figuring out where to put them.
Um, so my first experience with star man was in the all star comics. Um, all star squadron where Roy Thomas and Jerry Ordway were drawing Ted Knight. That was a mid to late 70s? Early 80s, 82, like it, cause it ran up till crisis. Crisis was in 85 because they had to reset the book. Okay. Now you're thinking of all star comics where Power Girl showed up and started issue 57 and ran into adventure comics.
This is All Star Squadron, where when Roy Thomas got run out of Marvel for a little bit after writing Invaders, he said, well screw that, I want to write World War II again, and he started writing it with DC with their group. I always had an interest in that character because he sat down and Ted just built a rod that helped you fly.
The cosmic rod. Again. So, as [00:06:00] Stephen said, leading up to Zero Hour, where once again, DC thinks to, editorial thinks that to fix continuity, we have to flush the Justice Society down the toilet. Um, we, you know, age them up to what they should be, and um, you know, croak off a few of them. And Ted Knight gets to be in his 90s, and he passes the mantle on to his older son, David.
David. Right. And David actually showed up. For the first time in Will Payton's Starman for one episode one two issues. I did not know that that's so interesting he Robinson doesn't get crater credit for him David puts on the suit first first Issue which was a zero issue for for Starman. That's right In a very new our opal sitting which we've all decided to Back in the original [00:07:00] podcast it is mirrored after Philadelphia, is that what you said?
Boston. Boston. Okay, Boston. And, uh, he gets shot right through the chest. Yeah. And falls out of the sky. And that's the end of the series. That's it. So, uh, so we're going to talk at length about one book. And they stretched, they stretched that out for 75 issues because every issue was him falling on the ground.
Every panel is his arms frailed and legs. Yes, he fell off a 73 story building. And every other issue is a memory that he had in the past before he hit the ground. Wouldn't that be a torturous book, kids? No. So you have, um, so James Robinson is an English writer. I don't, um, don't know a heck of a lot about him other than he's an English writer.
But I believe he has spent a lot of time living in the United States. Okay. So he's very familiar with, uh, and, [00:08:00] and presumably has an interest in, because I think it comes through in his writing. Um, he's got quite an interest in all things Americana. So essentially what, what my, my take on, on the character is that, um, He got David Knight out of the way in the, in the, in the, in the first issue.
And then we have a series of events and situations that are adding to this growing concern. That is will the younger knight, um, uh, Jack, Jack, uh, take over the, the, the family, the family business, so to speak, and. That then leads into what I think is not only one of the best comics I think that's ever been produced, consistently produced.
Okay, [00:09:00] so, I think all told, I think there's 80 issues, I think, in the series. Um, this was, this was pretty, uh, the quality is consistent. Right the way throughout. So that alone is a reason for celebration right there and then. Okay. Um, but it's more than that, because James Robinson wrote the whole thing through.
The first half of the series, the artwork is by, uh, Tony Harris. Tony Harris. And the latter part was Peter Snejberg, I think is how you pronounce it. Very different styles, very different styles, but they both work extraordinarily well. Especially given where the narrative goes throughout those 80 issues.
Um, I, [00:10:00] I'm gonna go out on a limb here. And I'm going to say that, because we talked about this in a previous podcast, um, when the subject of Neil Gaiman's, uh, Sandman came up. Okay. Okay. And that was a book that ran 75 issues, and obviously it's much lauded and beloved and honored, and quite rightly so, quite rightly so.
I made a comment, um, that I actually think that series went a little too long. Yes, I remember that. And the, the, the section that I, I feel with some really strong editing, uh, was The Kindly Ones. It was that final arc. Um, I lo I love Mark Hempel's art. I'm a huge Gregory fan. If you ever get the chance and you're in a Uh, you know, comic book story and you stumble across Mark Hempel's Gregory.
I highly recommend picking it up, because it's hilarious. Um, but there was something about the way the story went, and the art, [00:11:00] and the length, just didn't fit. And I, um, I kind of remember feeling, well I don't kind of, I do remember feeling like, I really wish this thing would just wrap up already, wrap up.
The reason why I say all of this. Number one, I think Starman could have gone longer. So when, when we, when I found that they were pulling the plug at a certain point, it was like, Oh man. And because there was, it felt like, Oh, there's so many more stories to tell. Uh, the quality is excellent. The art was fantastic.
Uh, Starman. As the series ends on its own very large multi part final story, the, uh, and I know I'm going to butcher this, but I'm not French, haha, clearly, uh, Grand, uh, uh, Oh, Grand Gouliagre? No, it's Gouignol, Grand Gouignol, Gouignol, I'm sure there's a French pronunciation that sounds nothing like what I've just said, but you kids at home get it.
Um, and [00:12:00] I thought it was fantastic because it, it, it pulled in elements that went right the way back to, um, issue. Um, but, uh, yeah, James Robinson is, uh, given rain effectively to create a whole new character. Um, as you, as, as you say, you know, we, uh, David had been in before. I didn't, I didn't know that. And I, and I learned that, uh, When I researched it for the first podcast, I had found that they'd written him in as a David was going after Will Payton for using the name Starman and at that point in time Ted Knight was not part of the DC Universe.
Picked up the story, read it, kind of cute, fine. And I remember when this came out, I quickly enjoyed the [00:13:00] father and son element. That is rampant through this of a, a son who on the surface acted like it, his, you know, his dad's part time job of being a superhero was lame. And he didn't really support that.
And, um, uh, didn't want anyone to know he, how cool he thought it was. Right. You know, he, he too had his sense of nostalgia because Jack's character is, he's, he's running a, Secondhand store. Yeah. Vintage merchandise. Antiques. Yeah. And that store plays heavily into a lot of these stories. And even the fact that, you know, the cosmic rod that Ted Knight used and gave to David, Handheld, you know, fit in the palm of your hand, a little protrusion at the top.
I'm not going to say what it kind of looks like, but then Jack [00:14:00] tries using it. It doesn't take, but then Jack finds a unique one off version that Ted used that they actually tied into the mini series golden age, much longer staff staff. Yet, if you watch. The CW show Stargirl. That staff That's the staff.
That came from, in DC comic continuity, Jack Knight. He passed it on to her when he retired to go raise his child. Spoilers. Yeah, well, and I'm going to try to not spoil it. Oh no, this has to be spoiler filled. But, but, but, but, There is, and you can get, you know, these soft omnibuses, um, to read. Cause I really rec, I recommend this to almost anyone that comes in and says, I'm kind of into superheroes, but I don't need all the silly capes and costumes because this,
this really [00:15:00] takes you through, he is, he has the heart of a hero. He, but he has no desire to wear capes, cows, or any of that. He doesn't complain about it. You know, you don't hear him always, you know, cause sometimes those, these books are written with the, every time you look at someone at Cap'n Cock, oh that's dumb looking, that's dumb looking.
He has his jacket and he has his goggles. Well, actually, he, he is critical of the outfit. Because in, in the beginning. Yeah, he talked with the fin on the head, but. Yeah, but. Like, well. So sometimes the trope is when you see other heroes, you're cracking on their costumes and he never, you don't ever see him bust a, you know, he was with Superman and Batman, he doesn't ever bust up.
No, no, no, you're quite right. No, I, I'm, what I'm thinking of is just there are moments where he, there was a moment where he could have put on his father's outfit and he went, nope, nope, not doing that. Um, um, With it he ends up a [00:16:00] very Romeo and Juliet. He falls in love with his father's greatest nemesis daughter She is a complete and utter whack job, and it's fun to watch her character development another Another sweet Trope in here is about every year There's a black and white issue and he gets to Cross into the realm of the Netherworld and gets to have a conversation with his brother and they work out those competitive brother you know one upness and They they really you you get to see the love and the strength of their bond It's just bittersweet because it is in the it's developing after the brother is gone.
Yes And You Well, I did not have a brother to, you know, that, that hit me, still hit [00:17:00] me hard because you can just feel that. I don't know if James lost a family member or something, but there is, there, there is times that James says that, that Ted Knight is his voice all the time. You know, that this was the closest.
Ted Knight or Jack Knight? Jack Knight, or, yeah, Jack, thank you. No worries. Jack Knight is the, uh, is James. In a lot of ways. I don't know if he suffered that kind of loss. I don't know if his father was a writer or whatever. Um, but they crafted such a world that even some of the lamer DC characters became interesting.
They brought the shade in, which if you remember the golden age shade, silver age shade, just some guy wearing a black leotard and a top hat. Um, they crafted such a beautiful character with that they, and, and, and that translated into Stargirls [00:18:00] TV show, that actor that they had playing him in that series really rang true to me with the Starman references, uh, reference material, but such a well thought out, made him immortal.
His main job was to protect Opal in his own way, you know, anti hero, He's a Flash villain. He's a Golden Age Flash villain. And there's, there's a lot of, so, Let me approach this from a different angle. So, again, I, I, I really know very little about James Robinson, other than uh, he happened to write one of my favorite comics of all time.
Um, I am aware of other things that he has written, but For the purposes of this show, and what I have to say, it's, it's, it is [00:19:00] Starman is the, is the, the thing. It's the real deal. Um, I actually came to this comic because when I was living in South Florida, uh, there was a comic book shop not too far away from my house.
And the guy who ran that, George, who, in time, actually became, uh, Not only one of my closest friends, but he's also godfather to my daughter's He we were chatting one day and he he said are you reading Starman and I'm like no and he was like You you need to be reading this book you absolutely need you Need to be reading this book.
So it's not like he wasn't approaching this like I'm gonna tell everybody to read this book No, it was a selective recommendation. He's like he'd gotten to know me a little bit and he's like, I think this is the book for you You need to read this book and he [00:20:00] helped me It was only an issue like five
Well, no, because that was, uh, late 95, early 96. So at least a year. I think that's the book had been going on for a year. But he helped me kind of get those back pieces, piece them together, piece it together, and he was like, read it. And I read it and was hooked. Right, right from the get go. Um, what, what I think, uh, if I may be so bold, um, and brave.
Yeah, but not in that order. Um. Is that what James Robinson gave himself with this series was kind of an opportunity to write Maybe all the comics that he Wanted to write at that time because and the reason why I say that is that under this through line of the hero's journey the reluctance [00:21:00] The reluctant hero who not only becomes a hero, but also becomes one of the greatest heroes, and also, uh, um, asserts his place in the legacy.
Because he's a legacy hero. His dad was, his dad was Starman, his brother was Starman, he is Starman, and at a later point in the narrative, he passes that torch. or cosmic rod, um, to a young girl to become star girl and interwoven into this narrative are explorations of From what I understand and I believe this to be true is every Every DC character that has ever held the name Starman.
Yeah, shows up in one capacity or another. Or another. So you have Will Payton from the 1980s. You have the blue skinned, uh, [00:22:00] disco Starman from the 70s. Uh, you've got that Starman who I think only appeared in like one issue. Uh, but they're in there and it's not, these aren't throwaway cameos. Each of these people, uh, occupies a very important part of the story.
So, James Robinson is getting to write this, this legacy exploration of, of, of a, of a dynasty, if you will. But he's also getting to write. So that's, that's American superhero comics is what he's getting to write. He's getting to write American superhero comics and anybody who loves Americans. And, and I stress American because, Comics featuring fantastic characters are very different in England.
They're very different in Europe. They're very different in Japan America does have a cultural [00:23:00] style on this And if you want to know what I'm talking about visit your local comic shop and just pick up a copy of Superman That is an American superhero Spider man that is an American superhero. So he is writing an American superhero story But what he's also writing is, he's taking a stab at, um, late Victorian literature or storytelling with his approach, uh, to the shade.
He's also writing a crime epic. He's also writing a horror story. He's also writing a philosophical, uh, exploration of, of relationships, uh, and how, in Jack's case, death. Is not the barrier that it is for all of us. He is able to Rediscover his brother in a very very interesting and quite unique manner [00:24:00] um Also as I said at the start of this, I I feel that james robinson is quite quite interested in americana so making jack knight, uh an antiques Things Past, I think it's the name of his store.
He gets to put in little things about Bakelite, uh, telephones and, uh, 3d Viewmaster reels and Hawaiian Hawaiian shirts, and, um, old records and old toys from the 1950s. And it's all, Jack kind of lives in this world of the past. But he is incredibly resentful in the beginning of the past that his name is associated with.
It's just an interesting dichotomy that kind of plays out quite organically. [00:25:00] And most importantly, it is believable. You, you believe this, this character, his journey and the characters that he, he interacts with. Um, there's uh, there's uh, James Robinson brought, text pieces, the Shades Journal, uh, which means that you get the comics.
Sometimes you got, uh, the added bonus of a page of, of, of, um, you know, cursive writing that you had to read through. And, and it was brilliant. And you wanted to. The letters page on Starman was, was a hoot. I, I absolutely, I mean, Letters pages in comics are always a bit of a. You know, mixed bag. They really are.
And, and I, I know they, they come and go. Sometimes they're in, in Vogue. Sometimes they're not. I know [00:26:00] Marvel has brought Letters Pages back. And when I'm reading some of those books, I'll go, I kind of skim through them, but they tend to be, Hey, I really liked this, that issue. Hey, that was so awesome. Hey, you guys suck.
Um, when are you going to put, Peter and Mary Jane back together and then poor Nick Lowe has to then explain how well we found that people are actually Quite happy with the fact that Peter and Mary Jane aren't together and the rest of us are reading this like our bollocks You know, all you ever do is print letters from people saying why not?
Why aren't you putting them back together? I I've never seen the letter saying, you know, I stand by I think you guys did the right thing, but that's another show Um, but they, they, they're a bit trite, but the star man lettuce page became this kind of exploration of what it became became a community. Yeah, I've liked that.
Like minded. Yes. Like mind. What do you [00:27:00] like to collect? What's your, what's your tether to the past? And as you're, as you're conveying all this, there, there, I'm, I'm trying to remember some things I, I've said in the first podcast. And. It just struck me. I remember now why this character appealed to me, not only just my golden age affinity for all things, justice society, he is a collector.
Yes, that's right. That made it more relatable than any other superhero. You know, as much as you want to be Green Lantern, as much as you want to be the flash, um, you know, this guy's a collector. He. There's there's little scenes where he's out in in the world Looking for stock for a shop and he is he is wheeling and dealing and while you know I don't necessarily go out and haggle over comic book prices You do know the hunt and in the very first trade paperback was [00:28:00] the first six issues that were Reprinted together Mike Aldred wrote the book And I'm kicking myself for not having it in front of me to, you know, speak to it word for word for you, the audience.
But the thing that he started off with, and when we did this the first time, it resonated with all three of us. I like stuff. Yes. That's the beginning statement. Okay. He talked about how James tapped into that, um, that all of us like stuff. And as I kept reading that, that just rang with me because you look around your comic room, all of you out there, you look around your office, if you're listening to this podcast, you've got some action figures.
Could, could do. Yeah. You've got some comics, some trade paperbacks. Yeah. You might have a movie poster framed on your wall. Poster. Small glasses, drinking glasses, maybe have some [00:29:00] old, you know, the shadow 3D glasses. A couple of t shirts. You know, um, that drew me into Starman on a whole different level. The idea that this guy, who has no superpowers, is all mechanical.
You know, this rod. Yeah. That he didn't even build. Yeah, he didn't even build, he, he, he just knows it was his dad. I mean, how, how many of us, oh, that was the thing in dad's office, right? We can all relate to that. Yes, we can. Yeah, you don't touch that. Or deep down, you knew Dad wanted you to pick up his hammer and go out there and, oh, uh, build the help.
Build the shed. Build the shed. Or, or start the first time you start that lawnmower and, uh, don't run over the neighbor's cat there, you know. This is a, for all of us who have fathers and have unresolved issues, this also spoke to us in a way, [00:30:00] um, that no other comic dared address. No, absolutely. Yes. And they didn't, they didn't beat you over the head.
No. There's, there are several times where in, in the beginning when Jack is making fun of his brother for being Starman. Yes. In the flashbacks. Yes. And accidentally insults his father's, uh, legacy. And the dad goes, I don't think I can see you for a while. But then the son turns around and goes, but we're still getting together for dinner on Sunday.
And you hear the dad at this point, yes, we're getting together. What parent hasn't had that type of conversation? Before I forget, in this whole run, my favorite four issues is when he crosses over and With the Sandman. Yes. Wesley Dodds. At the time Matt Wagner is writing Sandman Mystery Theater. Whole different style art, the same, same noir feel.
Yes. And [00:31:00] they crossed over one issue of Starman, then one issue of Sandman Mystery Theater, and that the Mystery Theater was a flashback to World War Two, World War Two Sandman running around with Jack's father and And seeing Wesley Dodds with his little cane put on his gas mask again and, you know, try to, try to be relevant and, and kind of is.
I don't know why I was cheering for that. Oh, it's, it's fantastic. And, and it actually turned me on to Sandman Mystery Theater because I picked up first couple issues, but it didn't really grab me. But then when I saw it again, I was like, okay, I'm going to go back and read it. And once again, the art style is not for everybody.
But it's a good art style and it fit the noir feel. Guy Davis, yeah. It's, it's a very, um, there's a roughness to it, but I think it, it, it fits that time [00:32:00] period. Because everything is a little, everything is changing very fast and it's not that I, I, I mean, I wasn't alive during that, that time, but I can imagine with everything going on the, the stirrings of war in Europe, uh, you, you've just come out of prohibition, music is changing, fashion is changing, style is changing, things are changing so rapidly that you would kind of look at the world in a, you can't, you can't, You can't snap focus on anything and, and Guy Davis's art, there's a, there's a kind of a roughness to it, but it's gorgeous and, and he, Guy Davis draws people the way that people look.
So, he's not, there are no, you know, washboard abs, there are no Wesley Dodds is not a well cut, defined superhero. No, there's no J. Scott Campbell esque women or, you [00:33:00] know, no, not at all. Not at all. That was the first time I ever saw Sandman, you know, might need to eat a salad or something. Yes, yes, and it's fantastic because, um, um, And, and while we're on the subject of the art, we talked a bit about James Robinson, but Starman did not come about just on, I think the success of Starman, I should say, didn't come about on James, just on James Robinson's writing.
Tony Harris's art is, It's, it's perfect. It is just so perfect for this book. So you've got, for me, you've got, you know, Stan and Jack and you've got, you know, Claremont and Byrne, Claremont and Cochran. Exactly. You've got all these, to me, the, the marriage of Robinson's, um, thoughts and, and Tony Harris's art is, it's, it's a match made in heaven [00:34:00] because those things that we've talked about, the stuff.
He draws this stuff. So you see this stuff, this city that they, that they are in Opal City. It's this sort of art deco wonderland. And, and Tony Harris draws the living heck out of that. Um, the, the only, there's, there's one little anecdote I know, and I think it's something like Tony Harris loves drawing pirates.
James Robinson knew that, so he actually put some elements in the story that involves pirates. And Tony Harris draws fantastic pirates. He does, and I remember the origin of this episode also. The first time is I had just met Tony Harris at the small convention in Irving. Right. Because I had him sign the poster for Now, this is how long this has been.
When [00:35:00] Jeff Johns last Justice Society, that took 19 years to complete, 12 issues, um, came out, by then, Tony was drawing the B covers for about the last 7 issues that were going to come out. And they were in, for each decade. Like, so the poster I got was from the 1940s. And that's where I also learned he had as much of a vested interest in Jack's legacy as James did.
And he was at the time showing me the sketching for what would have to be Justice Society beat cover number 10 or 9 because it would have been the David Goyer, James Robinson, Justice Society from the relaunch. And, and that, and Jack was dead center. He was like, and Jack, he's even go, Jack had to be the focus of this one because the next beat cover before [00:36:00] the series ended was.
The final JSA that we were running around with, which had these weird kids that I still don't understand what jobs is doing. But first off, if you ever meet Tony Harris, do not make the mistake of calling any ship, the Jolly Rancher. He will tell you that he didn't name it after a effing piece of candy.
And I tried to say, that was just where my brain went. Sorry. I know it's Jolly Roger. Um, because he did have a bunch of pirate stuff. Yeah. Um, And he's also very selective about what fans he will let on his Facebook page. You have to let him know where you met him and the first thing he'll tell you is don't be an asshole.
Yes. And that was great. I enjoy being on his Facebook page. I hope that the rumors are true. There hasn't been a solicitation for it yet, but him and James Robinson are supposed to be doing a black label for issue star, man. They [00:37:00] keep talking, keep hoping, and if it does or doesn't happen, I will tell anyone listening to our voice, go to your local comic book shop and grab the first compinion of Starman.
Read it. Yes. Um, I know I'm rambling a little bit about it, Stephen has done a much better job of drilling down the topics because, um, We both compliment each other in these situations, and every one of his points are things that I remember. Touching on the book, even the little details that Tony puts in about the stuff that he goes and finds.
There were old Burger King glasses he drew that I was like, I had that Burger King glass. That was great. I could go into my mother's cupboard and find it. Um, there's also, and I'm just looking at it right now, there's a very sweet Christmas Santa Claus story. Yole story, yeah. Where Jack helps a kind of down and out.[00:38:00]
mall Santa reunite with family. Um, the family we haven't talked about that runs rampant through this is the O'Dare's well, this is so again, this is, this is a book I, if I'd somewhat say, you know, in one word, Because the book wouldn't be the same without the O'Darys. No, no. So, explain, explain Starman in one word, I would say, legacy.
Ultimately, it, that's, for me, that's what it is. And James Robinson, um, the fact that he, after Star I don't, I don't know if he did it during or if Starman had ended. But, Robinson did, uh, a It was an Elseworlds miniseries called The Golden Age. I think that was before this. Okay, and that [00:39:00] basically was sort of a, kind of a more adult contemporary look at the, At these Golden Age characters.
Kind of similar to what Darwin Cook did with New Frontiers. Uh, which, there'll be another podcast at some point. We do need to do that. About Darwin Cook's New Frontier. And kids, remind us to do the Howard Checkin Hey Kids comics. Yes, absolutely. Um, so, There's, he does this and then DC launches a new JSA title, uh, on the backs of, of the golden age that James Robinson was writing.
I think he wrote like the first year and then it transitioned with David S. Goyer, it transitioned over to Jeff Johns. Yeah, him and Goyer, actually we looked this up, I think the last, he and Goyer ran almost up to two years because they, part of them were [00:40:00] Involved in the return of Hawkman story, but John's was on it.
John showed up at around issue eight or nine And so they all had right it but then John's thing I think it was completely John's during that great darkness saga where Right the second time of obsidian and cobra. Yeah, it clips all that. I think all of that was all John's but yes because Robinson handled Jack Knight retiring from the JSA passing on his, you know, passing on his torch to Courtney with kind of a gentleman's agreement of he don't really get to use this guy anymore unless Less I.
O. K. is. Yes, and, and D. C. have kept that. Um, which I, I'm always quite, I always think that's kind of neat when they recognize that you can't, just like you really can't have a Morpheus [00:41:00] story without Neil Gaiman. Yes. You really can't have a Jack Knight story without James Robinson. And, and if kids, if you're keeping, keeping score, Jack Knight made a quick appearance in Identity Crisis.
He was at Sue Demby's. Funeral. That's right. Um, and then recently the Justice Society comic that Jeff Johns was wrapping up He and Ted Nock did an extra Courtney issue and any of y'all that know that Courtney Whitmore is Basically, Jeff Johns lost a sister and based the character on her. Yeah, that's right That's really Jeff, you know Jeff is writing about his sister at that point.
At the end of the, uh, the Splash page last panel is all you know All of these people that affected life and there's Jack and his child and that was I was very excited to see a little nod You know, they don't ever speak. There's no dialogue and then Jack should did Jack show up in death metal dark But we talked about something [00:42:00] you were skating around that we were I I don't I don't know We got turned down where he couldn't be.
I don't know. I know that in blackest night Because they do that Yeah, the James wrote that as part of blackest night they they did a Special issue I think for like it was probably like seven books Yeah, where that had had ended previously and they got an extra title and they brought either the original creators or I think they did like The question issue 37 or 38.
They did Teen Titans with Tara. They did um But, Denny O'Neil didn't write it. I think Greg Rucker wrote it. But at that point, I think Greg Rucker was kind of looking after Vic Sage's question. But, they did a Starman one. Anne Robinson and I believe the art is Tony Harris on that as well. Um, it's just a, it's, it's, it's, it's gonna [00:43:00] sound, it's a lovely book.
It just, it, it, it, it just works. Um, the, yes, I mean, I, I've kind of derailed my brain here a little bit thinking about what you were saying, Scott, about the nature of Jack Knight's relationship with his dad. Yes. Because it's every, I think it's probably every father's dream to think that not only fathers and sons, okay.
It's every father's dream to think that your son is going to look at you as being a good man, a capable man, maybe even a great man, you never know. And the things that you have done as a parent, whatever your job is in life, that that will be looked as, you know, boy, when it, when I grew up, I'm going to be just like my dad and, you know, and whatever that job is.
My [00:44:00] father was, um, My father was a metal worker. He, he was a welder. He, he, he bent metal into shapes, he made ornamental fences and window guards and pretty much anything that, uh, it was all like a lot of custom work. And my dad was absolutely blue collar. He would come home at the end of the day, he was grimy, he wore white clothes.
Uh, the, one of those, uh, utility shirts that had a, an embroidered circle on it with his name. Yeah. Jim, and he would open the fridge, and he would pull himself a papsed blue ribbon, and he would knock that thing down, and then he would convince my mom, who was probably cooking, that, ah, let's go to McDonald's, cause my dad really liked McDonald's.
My dad was very, very very blue collar working class type, and I know that there's a, in his mind, he would, [00:45:00] nothing would give him greater joy than to think his son would be like him. When I grew up, I want to be a welder just like my dad. So having a son, um, who actually was like, I don't want to do that at all.
I want to go and write and do something artistic and, you know, intellectual and all these things that you're not. And I know my dad was, it, it, it was heartbreaking. And that's. Yeah, that's what rings through this book. And that's what rings through this story. It's, yeah. And you even find out that as kids, it, it, it.
It was Jack that was dressing up as Starman, and his brother making fun of him, and sometimes, you know, um, then protecting him. It's always said, you know, fathers and sons, your father's your first hero, and if it's a daughter, that's their first love. And they grow out of it, you [00:46:00] know, we find out our parents are humans, and all of that, but, you know, for, for everyone that has a parent.
I mean, there, and there's a, there's an issue, there, there is a storyline about Jack's mom in here too. She dies very early on. Yes. But there is, there is another very interesting element in here that runs the same with his communication with his brother. So it is. It is definitely a family driven book. Yes.
The Knight family, the o dare family who you find. Right. You go back to this, right? Yes. You mentioned that. Sorry, I, I derailed this, this redheaded Irish cop family, you know, couldn't be more stereotypical English, hating. Yeah. Couldn't be more stereotypical. And, uh, you know, you, you find out that, um, uh, they've been.
Opal since the old west and there's there's there's a DC Western character. They tie in a scout Hunter into the, into that family. So you're [00:47:00] dealing in the night. The Knight family has always helped out the O'Dare family in the Starman world and watching the kids look at Jack and go, your dad's kind of a great man, always helped our pops out, you're kind of a punk at first.
Very, yeah, once again, plays into family and if you've had a close family, families that are friends, you, you kind of know that vibe. No, that's it. So the O'Dares They are, as, as, as, uh, as you say, Scott, so they're like multi generational, um, police officers in, in Opal City. So clearly these were kids, so in, in the, in the, in the book, there's, I think there's like A couple of brothers and a sister.
A couple of brothers and a sister, even the, the, the girl where, where everyone was like, Oh, she won't be a cop. Oh yeah, she's absolutely gonna be a cop. Their dad is a cop, he's still on the force, and you know that when these O'Dare, when these O'Dares were [00:48:00] kids, I mean, their dad was their hero, their dad is still their hero, you know.
Whereas Jack Knight, when he was a kid, his dad was his hero, and then he grew up, and then he went through adolescence, and something changed, and, and, not to belabor the point, but I need to go back to just, just on that note. Please. Just that. When I was a little boy, I remember my dad loved westerns. It didn't matter.
He, he wanted, you know, Gene Autry and the Lone Ranger, the, the, the Clayton Moore. Clayton Moore. If that was on TV Son! You know, get in here! Get in here! Lone Ranger's on, you know, and we watched Lone Ranger when I was a little boy. It was like, ah, this is fantastic Lone Ranger and You know, just you know Anything anything?
Western cowboys if there was a John [00:49:00] Wayne movie on come on son. We're gonna watch, you know, we're gonna watch the searchers We're gonna watch, you know, tie a yellow ribbon or what Jake big Jake and then I I Moved to England You And I grew up, and I went through teenage years, and when I came back into my dad's life, I was 18.
My dad really hadn't changed. Oh, I've changed quite a bit. So, my dad is like, you know, well, watch a movie, you know, take a look. Because my dad had video cassette library that was just huge. And, uh, And I remember one day we got onto the subject of John Wayne and Westerns and the arrogant little shit that I was at 18, I start shooting off at the mouth about, well, it's all just kind of American bullshit propaganda, isn't it?
And [00:50:00] this and that, and start trying to talk about Vietnam and American politics. And just so that I've got that kind of. You know, oh it's all bleh and just bad. And to his credit, he didn't beat the shit out of me. What he did is he just kind of looked and listened and then changed the subject and that was the end of it.
And I kind of felt like, yeah, I won, I won that conversation. Ever several decades later, I look back, I want to punch myself in the nose until it bleeds because That was a missed opportunity to re establish, and that's what you want as a parent, you look, you look for opportunities to re establish the connections that you had with your children when they were young, because that's when those connections felt at [00:51:00] their purest.
Um, or unencumbered by the realities of life or what have you. Not that you, you don't want to see your children grow up. Of course you do. Okay. And you want them to be independent and you want them to be successful and all these things. But there's a, there's a part I think of every parent. Uh, who gives a damn about their kids.
I, I'll specify that. That you, you look for those opportunities to tell that, and there, My dad has, uh, he's been gone, gosh, 13, 14 years now. And there are times when I would, there is nothing I wouldn't give than to be able to sit on the couch and watch a John Wayne Weston with my dad. And it's, yes, it's the wanna game of catch, it's the, it's that whole field of dreams thing.
Yeah. No, no, I get that. And that comes through in this book. It does. Enormously. It very much does. [00:52:00] And, um, you know, as kids become, become parents is when we get more reflective on those special moments. Because God help us when our kids figure out we're human. Oh, God. Yeah. I'm not saying we have to be perfect.
No. But, but, you know, let, let's face it, no one, no one wants to think about their grandparents bumping uglies. There's no, that's not a, that's not something they ever want to think about. We just turned our R rating the other day. We did. And, and, and you know who's usually responsible for that. So let, let's keep up the, let's keep up the trend, but that, but it also resonates through here.
In fact, To give you an idea of how realistic the character development is, Jack is a hero. There's another, there's another section here in the first six issues. Where I think any of us, if we had a cosmic rod, would fall into this category. There is a bounty hunter that's given a specific task. To go pick [00:53:00] up a poster.
Or, that allows somebody to cross into a poster or a shirt. It's a shirt I believe. Cross into a nether region. Well there is a poster. There is a poster. And there is also the shirt. This is, this, I'm looking at the shirt. So this um, You know, the narration of the way this guy comes into the shop is very much, Jack has just gotten done dealing with Opal City being on fire, he's in a scruffy shirt, he also reminds you he had a little martial arts training, got up to like a yellow or green belt as we all did when we tried to do this.
So this guy comes in. Um, Transcribed by https: otter. ai Pulls an Uzi, Jack pulls his Cosmic Rod. They are pointing it at each other and it is very like, Hey, my boss sent me to get this thing. It, it has all these magical powers and can grant you access to another dimension. And Jack stares at him for a second and goes, [00:54:00] What?
Well, I don't want that in my, I don't want that in my shop. Why would I want that? And the guy's like, you don't want the shirt? No, I don't want the shirt. I can't let you steal it from me on principle. And the guy's like, you'll, you'll let me buy it? And, you know, the point in WebCDAC is like, sure, you go find it.
I don't want to see it. I don't want to know about it. Leave the cash on the table. And then it kind of, you know, it's almost like they shook hands and went the other way. And then it goes into him going to dinner with his father. And then the last, the last panel is that this guy used the shirt to disappear.
Yes. And it. It's those little moments as we're lamenting about our fathers and all these other things, but when you read that, you're almost like, that would be me if I had, yes, I had, I had this weapon. I could probably blow a hole in the wall and fly, but I'm tired, man. I just got beaten up, sat on fire.
Watch my sit, you know, my, [00:55:00] my girlfriend, I think is hot is turning into mist. I don't understand any of that. Um, and you want what? Very realistic. I, Once again, I cannot recommend this is one of the top five Tomes that I recommend to people. Yes that come into the shop You know after you do the you do the obligatory first volume of sandman, you know, right you do you you do that because You know like that Um, you know, i'll grab this There's a few others.
I won't bore you with at this moment, but um, I I I've rambled on about this but i'm just gonna tell you there are five companions that in Go Encompasses entire series for maybe no, no, no. So the compendiums there's two is there? Yes I'm thinking of the other one thinking of the omnibus omnibus is okay when they did the omnibus is they were sick I'm, sorry.
I got my issues confused, you know [00:56:00] Isms and emu and right, you know, it's um, it's worth the hop Oh, yeah, you know, we we have we have them available at multiverse dot com We have to say this because Yes, it's the only way we can pay the rent. For tax reasons. Yes. Um, yeah, no, it comes with absolutely the highest recommendation possible.
Um, if you like superhero comics, you'll love it. If you don't like superhero comics You'll still love it. If you like cool, new, our, our pool, if you, if you're interested in, in different genres, if you're interested in, in basically following, uh, a writer, James Robinson, who he's given this, I, I, if it was me, I would look at it as a gift, start to finish.
There you go. You get started, you get to finish it. It's completely on your own terms. And within this framework, you can tell. [00:57:00] Any kind of story that you want, flashbacks, flash forwards, there's a space opera, there's a horror, I mean, it's just, there's so many elements, and, and then you get the little things, like, what you were just saying with the shirt, um, there's a character that, that Robinson introduces, Bobo Minetti, He was the bank robber who goes to jail for like 20 years and he comes out and he ends up getting hired as a, like a security consultant.
This is Robert Mitchum. He's this big, he smokes, he drinks, he's got that rat a tat tat dialogue because James Robinson loves old movies. Uh, in the, I think it's in the letters page. Um, I think. I have to go back and look. There's a thing where I think James Robinson talks about a dream he has. Where he's sitting, I think, by a [00:58:00] pool and on one of those kind of old foldout lido chairs, you know?
Okay. Yeah. With the, with the vinyls head and the Yeah, the, the vinyl strips, the headrest and the foot. Yeah. And the person sitting next to him is Lee Marvin. And he is having a conversation with Lee Marvin, and, and I'm like, yeah. Oh my gosh. You know, and it it, if any of us who've ever had a dream where you got to interact with it, I, I have a dream that , I, I've told people about this, uh, where I, um, I got tapped on the shoulder to join Frank.
Dean and Sammy. I got to join the Rat Pack. And we sang on stage in our tuxedos. And we had a laugh and joke. It's one of the best dreams, and I still remember it. It was just one of the greatest dreams I've ever had. Because, there's a bit of wish fulfillment. We're never going to be able to be in America in the 1950s.
We're never going to be in America, the [00:59:00] disco era of the 1970s. And that's covered as well. And that's a good thing. There are good reasons why we shouldn't do that, but at the same time the nostalgia is like It was kind of cool in the 1950s, you know, it was kind of cool in the 1940s You know, there's you want to explore that and we can only do that Through movies, but but James Robinson writes a comic that's like actually There's kind of a way.
And once again, as much as we talk about the letters pages, if you go into a local comic book shop and try to find the floppies, they're only about two or three bucks a lot. Oh yeah. It is a, you know, depending on how you want to consume your, uh, Yeah, your content. This is one of those, you know, maybe drop down, 10, 15 bucks, just, you know, after about issue eight, nine, so we'll get the letters going.
Um, and just read those letters pages. Oh, yeah. They're super funny. I mean, you might even get lucky and go to a convention, find them in the [01:00:00] dollar box. You might. So before we close out, cause I know we did this when we, when we did the first version of this. Okay. So a big element in the story, obviously, Is stuff and collections.
Okay. And I remember from the lettuce page, James Robinson was, he personally collects those view master 3d reels. And there were certain kind of obscure ones from looking for something, kind of reaching out to people saying, Hey, if you've got this, we could swap, we could do a trade. You know, I've got, you know, an old Adams family one, but I'm looking for this.
And Hey, I, I remember those view master reels. I still have them at my mother's house. Yeah, see, I'm so jealous of you, mate. Because you've still got these things. I Well, I didn't cross oceans. You know, I mean, I, I, I I am two miles from my mother's house now I'm four miles from my house so you see how adventurous my world has been.
But there are those things that you you, [01:01:00] you accumulate, that you hold on to. And and I think when we talked about this before I was talking about my love for T shirts graffiti designs t shirts and they did a star man one and I have the star man shirt They also did the star man Henley that I had That one's lost, but I've got the t shirt, but just you know, they said bug Star Wars Burger King glasses.
Yes You know that that and the glass is so thin on those I'm a sinner I was at a, uh, an antique, uh, mall, and they've got a couple of, uh, Empire Strikes Back ones. And I'm like, God, this glass is so thin, like it could shatter so easily. But I remember being a kid. Yeah. I mean And you drank in it regularly?
Oh, yeah. There wasn't My, my dad, like I said, he, he was a huge, loved McDonald's. We had, uh, the McDonaldland characters. They did glasses, the McDonaldland characters. Yeah. [01:02:00] And we had, uh A couple of full sets several times over, because my dad used to go to McDonald's all the time. We seem to have a disproportionately large number of grimaces for some reason.
And so my memory is, as a child, like, I would usually, if I was drinking out of those glasses, it was probably a grimace. Well, there you go, kids. Yeah. We've actually talked a little, we've talked longer when it's just the two of us, then, um, the four. So we're going to wrap this up. Cause we know 20 minutes and people start falling asleep.
No, I don't think so. Um, go get the book, go read it, go get it. And if you do put it in the comment section, let us know. Yeah. Um, Jason has now expanded our, uh, Our way our YouTube page where you get to see some little videos about his comic reviews and we're we're going to start trying to add some content there.
We're learning how to do that. That's right. Um, Stephen's daughter who works here with us is doing some of the short reels. So she would, she would love a howdy out there and let us know if [01:03:00] y'all are enjoying those or if there's a A reel she should make about a particular book you're looking at. She would be happy to do that.
That's right. And, or, um, if you buy the book and you, you enjoy it, come in and talk to us about it, come find us, come find us Saturday afternoons. Come into the shop and we'll talk tell us about the things that you collect some obscure thing that you're hunting for I love those conversations They get us through the day.
It makes us makes us feel relevant. That's right If you don't we don't see y'all before and y'all have a happy Thanksgiving We're about a week out when we're doing this. Hopefully it falls within there where you're not going. Hey, it's Valentine's Day Why are they wishing us? Why the wishes happy Thanksgiving, but From all of us here.
We appreciate you gobble gobble
Yeti Stereo Microphone & Opal C1: Thank you for listening to the multi-verse comics podcast. If you'd like to meet us in person, you can do that at the multi-verse in Hurst, Texas. That's our brick and mortar store. If you'd like to shop with us online, you can do that at www dot [01:04:00] multi-verse dot shop. Until next time, keep reading comics.
